tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post3728937502994249630..comments2024-03-16T07:27:27.752+00:00Comments on Novel Points of View: Bad language - or language that's fit for purpose? by Jenny HarperRae Cowiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10213969901991611348noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-86778316274627753912015-10-12T15:32:13.461+01:002015-10-12T15:32:13.461+01:00But what level is going to shock? Low for some peo...But what level is going to shock? Low for some people, very high for others. But I do like 'gritty'.<br /><br />Thanks for contributing, Patsy.Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-79530988010532424192015-10-12T15:31:09.938+01:002015-10-12T15:31:09.938+01:00Keep pondering on it, Linda!Keep pondering on it, Linda!Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-19622386057105360832015-10-12T15:30:00.039+01:002015-10-12T15:30:00.039+01:00Thanks Frank!Thanks Frank!Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-61140567902871422002015-10-12T14:48:07.066+01:002015-10-12T14:48:07.066+01:00It depends on the book, I think. In a light, fluff...It depends on the book, I think. In a light, fluffy romance, any swearing would come as a shock and might well offend the reader. In another genre, and under certain circumstances, it would seem silly if a character didn't swear.<br /><br />If possible, I feel the reader should be warned about anything, such as swearing or sex scenes, which might offend them so they can avoid it if they wish. A hint in the blurb such as 'gritty', 'graphic', 'shocking' or 'steamy' should be enough to prepare them for such things.<br /><br /> Patsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12263765378083045973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-30546441739722236212015-10-12T14:34:08.002+01:002015-10-12T14:34:08.002+01:00I have always firmly believed that bad language, l...I have always firmly believed that bad language, like explicitly described sex, has to have a point in the story and not be there just because an author can write it in - it has to affect the story in some way. That said, a character whose character is as it is BECAUSE he or she swears a lot is just as valid....hmm,,, thorny subject, eh?Linda Mitchelmorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10948518126405880012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-86013450713689516132015-10-11T20:06:57.297+01:002015-10-11T20:06:57.297+01:00Just popping in to make a correction. In my origin...Just popping in to make a correction. In my original comment I referred to a book I named as "The Smack". It should, of course, have been "The Slap". An award winner by a (male) Australian author. From memory, the C word's first appearance is about half way down page 1.Frank Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06163631587525727876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-53413917835974179082015-10-11T17:32:48.143+01:002015-10-11T17:32:48.143+01:00It was on her own FB, not eNovIt was on her own FB, not eNovMary Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688996930245857265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-65631577112833872672015-10-11T16:56:30.339+01:002015-10-11T16:56:30.339+01:00No, actually - I missed that!No, actually - I missed that!Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-56826414638769157932015-10-11T16:43:51.571+01:002015-10-11T16:43:51.571+01:00Our friend Julie Frayn posted them on FB - wonder ...Our friend Julie Frayn posted them on FB - wonder if your post was the catalyst for doing so?Mary Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688996930245857265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-57622955398586465962015-10-11T16:06:38.441+01:002015-10-11T16:06:38.441+01:00Loved these Mary! I was trying to find a cartoon t...Loved these Mary! I was trying to find a cartoon to illustrate this ...Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-21161200718447095332015-10-11T13:53:28.108+01:002015-10-11T13:53:28.108+01:00Thought you might like this take on swearing: http...Thought you might like this take on swearing: http://www.buzzfeed.com/genamourbarrett/things-all-sweary-girls-are-tired-of-hearing#.qfL7q8lle <br /><br />It made me laugh.Mary Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688996930245857265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-17818573093697286782015-10-11T09:51:31.481+01:002015-10-11T09:51:31.481+01:00Wisely put, Jan - and I'm with you. I'm co...Wisely put, Jan - and I'm with you. I'm coming to the conclusion I shouldn't pussyfoot around quite so much! I do think one or two of my characters would naturally swear a little more than I let them. :-)Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-61406815707985378702015-10-11T09:50:26.663+01:002015-10-11T09:50:26.663+01:00Yes, I agree it's about impact - but some peop...Yes, I agree it's about impact - but some people do actually swear quite a lot! And that should be reflected in their dialogue. Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-61572402661399573562015-10-11T09:48:55.631+01:002015-10-11T09:48:55.631+01:00Thanks Mary. Your honesty about all this is both r...Thanks Mary. Your honesty about all this is both refreshing and very insightful. Neither of my parents took to swearing either.Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-80345238168226823732015-10-11T09:47:13.718+01:002015-10-11T09:47:13.718+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-45282412529638298742015-10-11T09:45:41.625+01:002015-10-11T09:45:41.625+01:00Really interesting post, Jenny - as is the questio...Really interesting post, Jenny - as is the question! I did notice the F swearing from one of your characters but that might have been because you don't normally use it and it stood out. However, if it fits the characters... Personally, I don't mind the odd swear word in context but find it boring in a novel where it's used too much (like some crime books) as it then dilutes the impact.Rosemary Gemmellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09311840205603508422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-44616809481308963812015-10-11T09:45:09.965+01:002015-10-11T09:45:09.965+01:00If we're talking dialogue then yes, I include ...If we're talking dialogue then yes, I include the f word quite a lot. Listen to real-life conversations... the worst offenders I find are young, middle to upperclass women. A lot of my character's swear, but not all of them. I write about real situations so as an author I think it's important to put personal preference to one side and get into the head of the character. Fear of offending readers with swear words is a sticky wicket because where do you draw the line with offence?<br />Having said all of that, there are limits. I think the overall tone of the book needs to be respected too. As in all things, moderation and restraint can be more effective, but to remove it totally wouldn't be realistic, for me. Jan Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16016647223297254901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-47209669056846945032015-10-11T09:45:02.348+01:002015-10-11T09:45:02.348+01:00Yes, that's interesting Gill. Just what I was ...Yes, that's interesting Gill. Just what I was trying to get at really. 'Effing' would certainly work for some characters - but others just wouldn't bother with it!Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-45429295582221646492015-10-11T09:31:34.099+01:002015-10-11T09:31:34.099+01:00PS I've started to use 'effing' in pla...PS I've started to use 'effing' in place of 'f***ing' and find that can work quite well. Stole the idea from Patrick Ness!Gill Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10089988752054189176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-32462792265193998342015-10-11T09:23:49.769+01:002015-10-11T09:23:49.769+01:00I haven't noticed any untoward effing and blin...I haven't noticed any untoward effing and blinding from your characters Jenny, so you're doing fine by me! This swearing issue is one I've pondered over long and hard in my YA books. I know (I have teenage sons!) that teenagers swear A LOT and that it means very little to me. I also know that many parents object to their offspring reading books with swear words in them, and I don't want to alienate that part of my potential buying audience ... I have compromised by allowing the older darker characters to swear and making the teenagers unrealistically clean-speaking except on very rare occasions. I've had no problems from teenagers but a few disapproving comments from adults ...Gill Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10089988752054189176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-22621417423883390742015-10-10T23:36:43.887+01:002015-10-10T23:36:43.887+01:00No he never took to swearing. I don't remember...No he never took to swearing. I don't remember him swearing at all when I was a child and only when I was an adult did the occasional bloody or bugger escape his lips. Funnily enough my next Goldfish post is about swearing - mine, not his - and his reaction, though it's more about being utterly exhausted - me, not him. <br />I think the uncharacteristic swearing is more common in people with Alzheimers rather than vascular dementia - but I could be wrong.Mary Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688996930245857265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-60022188438630079172015-10-10T23:30:59.537+01:002015-10-10T23:30:59.537+01:00Don't tell anyone, Julie, but I swear quite a ...Don't tell anyone, Julie, but I swear quite a lot too! And I wouldn't use asterisks in my novels, I'd use the whole word. If they say it, they say it! Was it in Mazie Baby? I loved that book!Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-12218359168462134792015-10-10T23:29:16.757+01:002015-10-10T23:29:16.757+01:00That's interesting, Frank. I never thought of ...That's interesting, Frank. I never thought of it as related to feckless. You learn something every day! Thanks for dropping in.Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-85993807548917289842015-10-10T23:27:30.755+01:002015-10-10T23:27:30.755+01:00There isn't a lot, Mary, but it is there. As a...There isn't a lot, Mary, but it is there. As a matter of interest – you know my next novel has an elderly man with dementia in it – I know some people with the condition do swear a lot (uncharacteristically) – did your father change in that way at all? Just curious... My mother never did.Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855283511538601375.post-84452926186223912052015-10-10T23:25:35.175+01:002015-10-10T23:25:35.175+01:00Aha. You have my point exactly!Aha. You have my point exactly!Jenny Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721428313351462045noreply@blogger.com